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There's now a sign up at the booking office window which says a one-day travelcard is only good for a return journey into and out of zone 6, hence the ticket barriers will retain tickets on your return. I guess it could be them trying to cut down on rubbish but I think you'd be perfectly within your rights to ask to retain the ticket for use on a bus home for example.

If you have a travelcard which includes travel from Potters Bar, then it is my understanding that it ceases to be valid after returning to Potters Bar. So you are not supposed to use it even on a bus within Potters Bar (on routes that allow it).
But if you buy a travelcard (without the PB bit) and a Hadleywood return (which saves you money) then you can use the travelcard in Potters Bar on return, or go to London again and use it.
But if you have this combination of tickets you are supposed to get on a train that stops at Hadleywood.

Tom

I've emailed FCC asking what the position is and TfL asking if they knew what FCC are doing - no reply as yet.

There was a heated argument going on at the station about 5 mins ago between someone who had his travelcard retained and the grippers. The gripper said it's a london travelcard and you're in Hertfordshire.

The ticket is an all zones unlimited but the bit between zone 6 and Potters Bar is only a return extension. It's for that reason the gate retains the tickets, but really it should mark the ticket as used so that it cannot be re-used at Potters Bar but allow it to be re-used at any station, bus, tram or tube within the 6 zones.

Mind you, reading this there is a campaign to move us into Z6, we can but hope (but I doubt it!!). The edge of zone 6 ought to be the same distance from central london but it does vary based on the london boroughs.

Still no response from FCC, however I have been pointed towards section "K" of the national fares manual where page K1.3 clearly states you can have the ticket back on request for travel on bus routes. What is isn't really clear about is whether the ticket is still available for use on the tube should you then buy anohter return ticket to Hadley Wood.

"a Day Travelcard from Bedford to R1256 is valid for one return journey from Bedford to Elstree & Borehamwood, and unlimited travel on participating operators services within all 6 fare zones.

Note: on return to the origin station, ticket holders may, upon request, retain their tickets for travel on permitted London bus services that operate outside the London Fare Zones area."

Good info Slimgym. Certainly when I spoke to FCC today, they were in no doubt that the ticket ceased to be valid on return to Potters Bar, and that is why the gate eats it. But your document totally contradicts this, and who is going to be the first to demand that they keep the ticket at the barrier?
As it explicitly states that it may be retained for use on local buses, I would almost certainly think that is all it 'should' be used for.
The PB buses that a travelcard can be used on are 84 (between Barnet and Cranborne Rd) 313 (all route) 298 (again to Cranborne Rd).

Further to this ... today when I went to the booking office and just asked for a day travelcard, we were issued with three tickets - a 2 part return to Hadley Wood (£3) and a zone 1-6 travelcard (£7). The ticket office person explained to use the Hadley Wood pair to get through the barriers here and the travelcard within London.

This is a much better idea, and at £10 is £1 cheaper than it was last year!!

Good one FCC, I like it

This doesn't seem to be universal - a different member of staff was selling a £12 travelcard to someone today I'm still waiting for a reply from FCC about the original question posed in December.

Finally had a reply, they claim to be correct in keeping tickets. I think they're wrong.

> The purchase of a Travelcard from Potters Bar station would
> allow you a return journey to London and the use of the
> Underground / Buses within the London zones 1 to 6. As
> Potters Bar is outside zone 6, once the return journey to
> Potters Bar has been made, the ticket is now no longer valid
> for further usage and is retained by the barriers.

I've now passed this to someone in ATOC who is finding someone in FCC to take it on board and tell customer relations/grippers. The text is from retail manual Part One, Page N-35, Clause N8.2.2:

'On return to the origin station, customers may, upon request, retain their ticket for further journeys wholly within the Travelcard area on the day for which the ticket is valid, and also for travel on designated London bus services that operate outside the Travelcard area. Details of available bus services are published by Transport for London'

It is pretty clear therefore that the ticket is still valid for journeys within the travelcard area on tube, bus, train and tram - and also outer london bus services. There is nothing to stop you keeping the ticket and then buying a return Hadley Wood to re-use it again (or making your way back in the zones etc).

slimgym Wrote:'On return to the origin station, customers may, upon request, retain their ticket for further journeys wholly within the Travelcard area on the day for which the ticket is valid, and also for travel on designated London bus services that operate outside the Travelcard area. Details of available bus services are published by Transport for London'

There is no way that can be misinterpreted. Thanks for all your work on this slimgym.

I don't know why a customer has to ASK for the ticket though, I think the machine should just eject it anyway. That is another topic though!

ATOC passed it to FCC and I got a response from the customer relations admitting if you asked to be let through the barriers you could indeed keep the travelcard. I don't expect they'll tell the gate line staff this or change the booking office notice though, but at least they have finally taken the point on.

They did not apologise for getting it wrong, but expressed disappointment I was not satisfied with their initial incorrect and inaccurate response. I think they have some sort of sarcasm add-on for outlook installed

Sometime ago I did ask the gateman on duty that if I wanted to retain my one day travelcard, would he let me, and he said yes, and would let me out thru the manual gate. I know it is only one of them. But we should always ask to keep our travelcard even if we don't need it, then they wil get used to the idea. And if enough of us do it, perhaps they may even change the gates so they don't swallow them.

The first time the gates took my travelcard, i asked the gateman for it back, and he gave it to me. I wanted it for the bus. He said to show the gate attendant it next time, and not put it through the machine.

Apart from this matter, I think the trains have been pretty good recently. I don't travel in the peak, so can't comment on that, but they're generally on time off peak.

OK, so it's expensive. MUCH more expensive than getting the 84 to High Barnet, or the 298 to Arnos Grove and taking the tube to town. But it's quick. I would though like to see PB Station in Z6, especially as Boris wants all London National rail on Oyster Pre Pay by May 2009.

It's good to hear they are letting people have the tickets back but a shame they don't put a notice up saying people have this option on their return.

It is way too expensive - it was mostly ok when I commuted daily but when I started shifts I found trains around 6.30 were standing only (crazy) so I started to drive instead. Now weekends I drive to Cockfosters and take the picc instead.

It's a shame because the local train is quick, but it is a ripoff (no excuses), and on football days you can be lucky to get on a train, letalone get a seat.

As for in zone 6, it can't happen unless Potters Bar became a London Borough...

PAYG will still be expensive and now the railways have bought into the zonal charging scheme stuff like being able to buy tickets to Oakleigh Park then a 4 zone will be the same as buying one ticket from here.